Fandom snowflake - Day 2
Jan. 3rd, 2022 12:27 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
flo_neljaIn your own space, set some goals for the coming year. They can be fannish or not, public or private.
Only fandom goals here! It's, mostly, a fandom journal.
I will take the same resolutions as last time reading-wise: finishing my bingo, at least 52 books, one every week, at least 26 that are "risks", not just advancing a series or reading a very short thing.
Writing-wise, I also have comms to advance: ladiesbingo (I have written fics. they're just, unfortunately, not in a line, I need a line). fam-fic (one fic left!), horrible-bingo... I still have my at least 42 fics goals. It motivated me end of last year.
But I also need to reach more abstract goals: not being so frustrated by lack of feedback, write things I want outside exchanges and challenges... It's hard. lack of feedback hurts even more when you really liked what you did. But does it did I must be afraid to write things I really want?
Do you have tips to manage lack of feedback? Or neutral feedback "not bad, no grammar mistakes" or just "thank you for writing for me" on something you poured your heart into?
.
Only fandom goals here! It's, mostly, a fandom journal.
I will take the same resolutions as last time reading-wise: finishing my bingo, at least 52 books, one every week, at least 26 that are "risks", not just advancing a series or reading a very short thing.
Writing-wise, I also have comms to advance: ladiesbingo (I have written fics. they're just, unfortunately, not in a line, I need a line). fam-fic (one fic left!), horrible-bingo... I still have my at least 42 fics goals. It motivated me end of last year.
But I also need to reach more abstract goals: not being so frustrated by lack of feedback, write things I want outside exchanges and challenges... It's hard. lack of feedback hurts even more when you really liked what you did. But does it did I must be afraid to write things I really want?
Do you have tips to manage lack of feedback? Or neutral feedback "not bad, no grammar mistakes" or just "thank you for writing for me" on something you poured your heart into?
.
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Date: 2022-01-03 12:52 pm (UTC)and so depressed that you detach yourself from everything and don't care about anything anymore (1 star/5, Do Not Recommend)no subject
Date: 2022-01-03 12:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-03 01:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-03 02:07 pm (UTC)Ce n'est pas tellement une question de popularité.
C'est plutôt la crainte irrationnelle qu'il y a de gros problème dans mes fics et que personne ne me le dit parce que sur AO3 ce n'est pas poli de dire du mal d'une fic.
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Date: 2022-01-03 01:26 pm (UTC)- I write for me. I do this, for fun, because I enjoy it and because I can. The win is in writing the thing I wanted to write, and everything else is just gravy.
- I throw fic out into the fanosphere because I do enjoy reading other people's fic. It seems reasonable to contribute to the shared enjoyment
- I know, for a fact that there are people who read fic and enjoy it, but don't leave feedback. Sometimes they forget, sometimes they don't know what to say, sometimes they aren't comfortable saying things. But they're there.
- If one other person liked your fic enough to read it to the end, then you win. Whether they told you or not, whether you know doesn't matter, in a way. You still win. Because you made a thing and that thing made someone's else's life better, for a little while. You are, officially, a rock star.
- Kudos and comments don't really tell you anything. There's such pressure in fandom to comment and feedback that people can feel compelled, and compelled people write what they feel they're expected to write. Your hard work doesn't need a few external words or a little loveheart from a stranger to validate it, because it's already valid. You already created a thing that doesn't exist and you shared it with the world. That is a goddamn achievement and you should be proud of it.
With neutral feedback, I know it's hard, but try to let it go. Give them a "thanks for reading" and move on. Try not to impart meaning into what they wrote that they didn't say, because not all of them will deliberately be neutral. I think, when we're writing, and we do pour our heart into something and then put it out there for public consumption sometimes we forget that other people don't always find that easy to do. You think of "thank you for wrtiting for me" as neutral feedback, but it might be that that is the most heartfelt, grateful thank you that that commenter has written all year; they just might not have the words to say anything more. It's really easy to assume the worst in our written feedback, because we lose all the contextual clues about what the person really means. Our self-perception is our own worst enemy here (goddamit, self-esteem, stop sabotaging me!), so when you find yourself interpreting other people's feedback in the worst possible light, try turning it around and thinking about what the best possible way you could interpret their comment is.
...thank you for coming to my TED talk? I hope there's something in there that's useful anyway
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Date: 2022-01-03 02:24 pm (UTC)It doesn't help that what I want to write the most is above my skill level, so I guess exchanges are a kind of constructive procrastination?
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Date: 2022-01-03 07:13 pm (UTC)What is it you want to do that you don't think you're up to, if you don't mind my asking?
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Date: 2022-01-05 08:44 am (UTC)But I have ideas! I'm just not sure I can make them work. Sometimes I went as far as beginning of second draft.
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Date: 2022-01-05 08:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-03 03:21 pm (UTC)For the neutral feedback, I think its important to remember that you don't actually know if people were as neutral as they might sound. Some people can be really awkward over text, and nowadays comments are a lot rarer, so I think people taking their time to sit and comment shows that they enjoyed it too. And 'thank you for writing for me' might just be a shy person's way of being excited -- you never know. Personally, I remember joining exactly one exchange, and the person I wrote for didn't even comment, lol, she gave it a kudos and I doubt she even read it. Then later I saw her complain about not getting a comment from the person she wrote for, and I couldn't help but feel a little smug about that, haha.
Anyway, some things that worked for me personally was:
-- write for yourself specifically. I know this can be hard if you mainly do exchanges and such, but I had a period where I got so caught up in what others thought of my writing that I had to take a step back (after getting so scared of writing I couldn't for months LOL) and just write for myself, without any plans of posting. I didn't even post most of it, actually. I think extreme self-indulgence that you know is so specifically catered to yourself is both really enjoyable, and you also stop expecting as much feedback, because you know it's for you specifically. Of course, if you're not used to writing much for yourself it can be a bit challenging. I'd say start reading, watching, consuming a lot. Take notes of what makes you excited, giggle, gasp, cry, etc. What you think you could do better, what you want to explore further, etc.
And if you really are looking for more feedback, I think best way is to look for what's popular. Sometimes this can lead to new ideas that will gain traction, because you know lots of people look into this, and sometimes you'll realise that you much prefer your little corner of the fandom where there might not be many people reading or commenting, but at least it's content you're passionate about and enjoy creating.
But most important of all, there's no reason to compare yourself to other people. Your writing is not the same, and you never know what little thing -- maybe it's simply coincidence -- that made people read their stuff instead of yours. I don't think comparison will ever lead to anything good in cases like this.
I really hope you get to achieve your goals and you find the feedback you wish for -- and lacks of fuck to give about the rest. ٩(｡•ω•｡)و
And sorry if this entire reply or parts of it were a mess!
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Date: 2022-01-03 04:13 pm (UTC)Ha, writing for myself to the point of not even posting... I could try this actually!
Thank you!
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Date: 2022-01-03 04:24 pm (UTC)It helped me out for a while, made me regain my passion for what I was writing about! Not that you have to keep from posting it, but it definitely helps with the pressure of like, seeking it out and waiting around for it, when you know you've written something 100% for your own enjoyment. Also, as someone who is a hardcore lurker in fandoms (working on this!), I just wanna say no feedback doesn't equal no love! Good luck!
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Date: 2022-01-04 01:58 pm (UTC)Good luck with your goals.
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Date: 2022-01-04 02:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-04 05:47 pm (UTC)Also, as an exchange writer kind of person, and one in what are probably less popular fandoms as well as larger ones, I'm starting to spot what kinds of assignments are less likely to produce a lack of feedback, which allows me to be pleasantly surprised if I do get feedback instead of disappointed for not getting it.
That, and the thing that is far and away my most feedback and kudos work was written as a throwaway on a lark. That also helps me remember that feedback is fickle and random and if I enjoyed writing the thing, that was the important part and it's meant for people who will enjoy it as well.
I don't know if this is helpful, but it's how I manage the lack of feedback when it happens.
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Date: 2022-01-05 08:43 am (UTC)I sometimes wonder, what if I wrote everything in French again? I'm better in French. But of course, it would mean far less exchanges.
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Date: 2022-01-05 07:13 pm (UTC)I think the paradox is that you have to be a big name fan before you can become a big name fan with guarantees of feedback. Which, by itself, will probably give you much more practice with negative or neutral feedback.
Thoughts
Date: 2022-01-04 07:34 pm (UTC)Well, I'm self-motivated, so for me feedback is a perk rather than a requirement. Things I focus on:
* Writing feels good, therefore I write.
* If I don't write, it spurts out sideways, so it needs direction.
* If I don't give my extrapolative engine constructive things to do, it will find destructive things to do. Don't let the toddler get hold of the blowtorch.
* I write things that the world needs more of. These things will then exist, which is good, whether or not people read them.
* Remember that people may read and enjoy things but not comment. Lots of people are shy about commenting.
You can also look for ways to boost traffic and comments. Sometimes it helps to post tips on constructive comments. Search for highly active blogs and post there; you may make talkative friends who are more likely to comment. I've seen communities based on trading comments: to post a story, you had to make X comments on other people's work. I don't know if Dreamwidth has anything like that, but you could look for it.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2022-01-05 09:03 am (UTC)And I sure won't stop writing, but I wonder, is it worth to write in a language that's not mine? Because I won't lie, part of the reason is to have more feedback.
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Date: 2022-01-08 05:03 pm (UTC)Honnêtement, si astuce il y a pour gérer la frustration du manque de retours, je ne l'ai pas encore trouvée ! Avec les années, j'ai fini par me faire une raison ou plus précisément par trouver des raisons objectives et rationnelles à la raréfaction des commentaires ce qui me permet de mieux encaisser le fait que "c'était mieux avant". L'évolution des réseaux sociaux a nourri le besoin et le réflexe d'instantanéité qui s'accorde mal avec le fait de "stopper" son scrolling et prendre le temps de laisser un commentaire ; je suis dans un vieux fandom, donc les fans sont vieux aussi, ils bossent, ils ont une vie de famille et ils ont moins de temps disponible qu'il y a 15 ou 20 ans. Le kudo, c'est le moyen rapide de dire "j'ai aimé lire ton texte" et j'apprends à m'en contenter.
Mais dans le fond du fond, bien sûr que ça me frustre et de fait, tout comme toi, je m'interroge sur la qualité de mon texte en me disant que ce ne doit pas être si extraordinaire puisque les lecteurs considèrent que ça ne vaut pas qu'ils y sacrifient un peu de leur temps. Mais c'est penser à la place d'autrui, et on sait bien qu'il ne faut pas céder à cette facilité. Il y a des gens qui lisent. Bon. C'est déjà ça !
Pour les commentaires neutres, eh bien je m'efforce d'être dans le même état d'esprit : si le lecteur a laissé ces quelques mots, je m'en contente parce qu'il / elle a fait l'effort de les écrire et de les poster et ce n'est pas tout le monde qui prend cette peine. Donc j'en suis très contente in fine (même si là encore, par rapport à il y a 15 ans où on écrivait des pavés en commentaires et on recevait des réponses pavés, c'est un peu tristounet).
Donc, comme beaucoup l'ont dit plus haut, j'écris pour moi en priorité sans me poser de question. Mais parfois (hum... souvent), c'est dur de se motiver quand on le fait dans un grand... Silence.
Voilà, je ne sais pas si ça a pu t'aider mais quoi qu'il en soit, il y a une chose dont tu ne dois pas douter : la qualité de ta plume est indiscutable :-D
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Date: 2022-01-09 01:04 pm (UTC)Ha ha, contrairement à toi j'aime les Kudos, surtout quand ils viennent de personnes dont le français n'est pas la langue maternelle (j'aurais aimé avoir cette option il y a vingt ans, quand je lisais en anglais sans avoir le courage de dire quoi que ce soit pour ne pas me ridiculiser)
Mais on ne peut pas blâmer les Kudos pour quoi que ce soit, puisque même sur ffnet, le nombre de commentaires a baissé alors qu'il n'y a pas d'option alternative.
Et aussi, je ne suis même pas sûre que les gens lisent ce que j'écris. C'est une partie du problème. Une bonne partie des hits sont "j'ai lu les premières lignes et ce n'était pas mon truc"
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Date: 2022-01-09 11:15 pm (UTC)The only solution I've found to sort of work for me is to comment on other people's fics. I cannot make people read and adore my stuff, but I can give the long quote-y comments I'd like to get. (And sometimes the authors reply with a long comment of their own, that's always sweet.) If that doesn't work I go for a walk until I feel less tragic - sounds kinda silly, but works for me.
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Date: 2022-01-10 09:34 am (UTC)You're right, commenting is good! Though I'm not very good at it. A short comment is still better than no comment at all, I hope. Thank you!
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Date: 2022-01-10 04:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-13 05:05 pm (UTC)Good luck for your goals! It's so cool you're doing so many challenges. What's the 42 fics one about?
And I totally get the feedback thing, especially if you wrote a gift and your giftee said "thank you" before they even read it and then silence. 🤣😭
It helped me a lot to hide my stats on AO3. Can't get competitive and depressed if I don't see mine or other writers' kudos and comment counts!!
I dunno if you know about AO3 skins? You can make one and paste the below into the CSS text box. I've seen other better tutorials around for stats hiders like that if you're interested, but I've lost the links so we'll need to find them! I kept this skin active and continued writing until I got better at managing the lack of feedback 😅
p.kudos, dl.stats .kudos, dl.statistics .kudos { display: none; }
li.blurb .stats { display: none; }
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Date: 2022-01-13 05:36 pm (UTC)Hmm, but if I hide it, I can't be happy about them either! It's a hard choice to make ^^
But thank you!