flo_nelja: (Default)
flo_nelja ([personal profile] flo_nelja) wrote2023-01-16 08:23 pm
Entry tags:

Snowflake Challenge - Day 8 - The Incest Poll

Hello! This is a post about fictional incest, please don't open it if it squicks you!
Mostly I'm curious about which "borderline" incest situations count as incest ships to you.

By taking this poll, you consent that it is about fictional situations and that "it is incest" absolutely not implies that it's wrong writing about it.



Poll #28245 Does this count as incest?
Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 16


First Cousins

View Answers

Yes
6 (37.5%)

No
6 (37.5%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
4 (25.0%)

Second cousins or more (from the same important, close-knit family)

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Yes
4 (25.0%)

No
10 (62.5%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
2 (12.5%)

Sworn siblings

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Yes
2 (12.5%)

No
11 (68.8%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
3 (18.8%)

Not blood related, their respective parents married when they were tiny

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Yes
8 (50.0%)

No
3 (18.8%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
5 (31.2%)

Not blood related, their respective parents married when they were teens

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Yes
0 (0.0%)

No
10 (66.7%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
5 (33.3%)

Not blood related, their respective parents married when they were adult

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Yes
0 (0.0%)

No
15 (93.8%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
1 (6.2%)

Legally adopted siblings, raised together

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Yes
10 (62.5%)

No
3 (18.8%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
3 (18.8%)

Legally adopted siblings, not raised together (adult adoption or estrangement)

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Yes
0 (0.0%)

No
12 (75.0%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
4 (25.0%)

Parent figure/child figure, no legal adoption

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Yes
7 (43.8%)

No
3 (18.8%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
6 (37.5%)

Raised together with clear acknowledgement one person is the child of the family and the other a ward

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Yes
5 (31.2%)

No
5 (31.2%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
6 (37.5%)

In-laws - Dating sibling's spouse / spouse's sibling

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Yes
0 (0.0%)

No
16 (100.0%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
0 (0.0%)

In-laws - Dating kid's spouse / spouse's parent

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Yes
0 (0.0%)

No
16 (100.0%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
0 (0.0%)

In-laws - Dating parent's spouse / spouse's child

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Yes
1 (6.2%)

No
13 (81.2%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
2 (12.5%)

Selfcest (time travel)

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Yes
3 (18.8%)

No
10 (62.5%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
3 (18.8%)

Selfcest (alternate universe)

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Yes
3 (18.8%)

No
11 (68.8%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
2 (12.5%)

Selfcest (cloning)

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Yes
4 (25.0%)

No
8 (50.0%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
4 (25.0%)

Alternate universe version of a family member

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Yes
5 (31.2%)

No
1 (6.2%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
10 (62.5%)

Clone of a family member

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Yes
6 (37.5%)

No
1 (6.2%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
9 (56.2%)

Very close childhood friends (could be labelled "like siblings")

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Yes
0 (0.0%)

No
15 (93.8%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
1 (6.2%)

Immortal ancestor/mostly human many generations descendant

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Yes
1 (6.2%)

No
13 (81.2%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
2 (12.5%)

Creator/Artificial creation

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Yes
2 (12.5%)

No
9 (56.2%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
5 (31.2%)

Two artificial creations from the same creator

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Yes
1 (6.2%)

No
12 (75.0%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
3 (18.8%)

Anyone/shapeless entity who takes the shape of a family member

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Yes
1 (6.2%)

No
9 (56.2%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
6 (37.5%)

Mentor/Student since childhood

View Answers

Yes
1 (6.2%)

No
14 (87.5%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
1 (6.2%)

Poly V where two siblings are dating the same person at the same time

View Answers

Yes
1 (6.2%)

No
12 (75.0%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
3 (18.8%)

One blood family and one adopted family of the same person, never met before

View Answers

Yes
0 (0.0%)

No
15 (93.8%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
1 (6.2%)

Schrödinger's siblings (one of them might be an illegitimate member of the family, but no one actually knows)

View Answers

Yes
2 (12.5%)

No
4 (25.0%)

It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
10 (62.5%)



goddess47: Emu! (Default)

[personal profile] goddess47 2023-01-16 07:57 pm (UTC)(link)
That actually has some interesting configurations... some of them (esp the in-law variations) could be squicky but that wasn't the question... nicely done for that purpose...

I did a 'depends' on the self-cest variations mostly because it can be done well or done badly, depending on the author, the ages of the characters, and, well, sometimes on sunspots or the phase of the moon! It's definitely not a hard 'no' for me, but I guess I need to be lured into it.

And interesting poll and I hope you get some thoughtful answers!

Thank you for participating in Snowflake!
hamsterwoman: (ASOIAF -- Tywin/Joanna)

[personal profile] hamsterwoman 2023-01-16 08:47 pm (UTC)(link)
This was fascinating to think about and to see other people's answers!

Elaborating on the "it depends":

First cousins -- I wouldn't consider it "really" incest if it's from a culture or time where cousin marriage is normal/common (which is not true for sibling incest for me -- that definitely still feels like incest even if it's Targaryens or whatever). But even outside of tht, it depends on how close the cousins are. The couple having children (or having the potential to have children) would make me feel it was more incest, but if it's a couple who don't know each other well and they cannot have biological children together, that would not feel like incest.

Second+ cousins -- mostly not incest, unless they grew up together, more like siblings or first cousins (which can happen in large, close-knit families)

Not blood related, their respective parents married when they were tiny -- incest if they were raised together (which I think is what the question probably meant), not incest if they were raised without much contact, e.g. by the parents who are not married to each other, and within that continuum depends on how much contact they had as children.

Parent figure/child figure, no legal adoption -- that seems like it can cover such a large territory. If the parent figure raised the child figure from a young age, was the only parental figure the child ever knew -- incest, even if no legal adoption. But if the parent figure took over parenting duties of a teenage ward -- I'd personally probably still find it squicky because of power dynamics, but it wouldn't feel like incest.

Raised together with clear acknowledgement one person is the child of the family and the other a ward -- I think for me it depends on what "ward" implies in the specific universe. If it's just a political tool for keeping hostages and/or establishing political relationships like in ASOIAF, and that's the framework in which the ward and the family children grow up, that doesn't feel like incest to me (and unrelated children growing up alongside each other can happen in a lot of circumstances, e.g. commune, creche). But if "ward" is essentially a form of adoption and it's just that a status difference is drawn between the ward and the children of the family, that probably would feel more like incest to me.

Selfecest -- I think is just a different thing altogether than incest, except if we're talking about clones, because clones presumably start out as children, rather than something like parallel universe travel where the two versions of the person are presumably meeting as adults. So, a situation where someone raised their own clone from a baby -- would definitely feel like incest. A situation where someone was brought up alongside their clone as a sibling -- would also feel like incest. A framework in which clones are legally considered to be children or siblings of the original might twoo, but it would probably depend for me on how the two people felt about each other (e.g. in the Vorkosigan Saga, a character immediately thinks of his clone as a brother, and so it would feel like incest to me even though they meet as adults).

Alternate universe version of a family member -- depends on the closeness of the family relationship and how far apart the universes are in terms of the family member's different experiences, but mostly incest.

Creator/Artificial creation -- depends on whether the creator had to raise his artificial creation. If he did, it would feel like parent figure/child figure. But it it's something like Tony Stark/Ultron, that doesn't feel like incest.

Anyone/shapeless entity who takes the shape of a family member -- for me, depends on whether the person in question realizes the other partner is a shape-shifter. If they don't, it's incest from their point of view. If they do, it still feels weird, and would still have incesty vibes for me, but I wouldn't call it outright incest.

Schrödinger's siblings -- I guess for me it would come down to the likelihood of them actually being siblings and then stuff like is the relationship likely to lead to inbreeding. So, like, it would bother me more with full siblings (e.g. older child born to the same couple out of wedlock and given up for adoption) than with half siblings, and I think would bother me more with a pair capable of having biological children vs one that was not.
kindkit: A late-Victorian futuristic zeppelin. (Default)

[personal profile] kindkit 2023-01-17 01:45 am (UTC)(link)
Here were my lines:

Blood relationship: yes if it's closer than cousins

Generational: If there's a generational difference it feels more incesty to me. For example, uncle/nephew, even if they're not blood related, is incest in my mind.

Raised together: If the people aren't blood relations but were raised together, it feels like incest to me.

Parental relationships: have to be literally parental, as in one character raised the other. So something like creator/artificial creation could be incest depending on whether the creation was brought up by the creator or was somehow created with a fully adult consciousness. But mentor/student isn't usually incest.


This is making me think of Fanny Price and Edmund Bertram in Mansfield Park. It's not incest (to me) because they're cousins, it's incest because they were raised together and behaved like brother and sister until adulthood.
kindkit: A late-Victorian futuristic zeppelin. (Default)

[personal profile] kindkit 2023-01-17 09:08 am (UTC)(link)
Of course genetitally it's still closer than cousins...

I was thinking specifically of uncle/nephew (or uncle/niece, aunt/nephew etc.) who aren't blood related. E.g., someone's mother's sister's husband is their uncle, but he's not their blood relative. If they are blood relatives (e.g. mother's brother) then it's definitely incest regardless of age.

raised together, but in an orphanage, not a family, is it incest?

Hmm, I'd say it depends. If they were raised together from early childhood, then yes. If it's later--say, they meet when they're 10 and are raised together after that, in a non-family situation--then probably not. From what I've read, there is to some extent an innate human aversion to incest, and it kicks in most strongly when people have lived together since the infancy of at least one of them. (I suspect--but this is based on nothing but guesswork--that a family dynamic has more of an inhibiting effect than an orphanage one, which is why I think that stepsiblings raised in one household from the age of say, twelve would be incest, but it wouldn't necessarily be if they were raised in the same orphanage from an equivalent age. If the dynamic of a family isn't there, it doesn't read to me as necessarily incestuous.)
malurette: (mad scientist)

[personal profile] malurette 2023-01-17 08:23 am (UTC)(link)
I guess my answers boil down to "Westermarck Effect" and do the characters themselves feel like family?
salinea: (Default)

[personal profile] salinea 2023-01-17 08:36 am (UTC)(link)
very interesting poll!
rekishi: (Default)

[personal profile] rekishi 2023-01-17 05:27 pm (UTC)(link)
I subscribe to the biological sense if incest. Share more than 25% if your genes and it's incest. Share less than 25% pfffft who cares.

Mentor/student is just icky.
bluapapilio: Blue-haired fairy from Tears of Themis (tears of themis fairy)

[personal profile] bluapapilio 2023-01-21 10:35 pm (UTC)(link)
I gave up answering halfway through, because my answer ended up being "well do the characters themselves think of it as incest?" to some of them XD

Like, I may not consider something incest but if the characters do in a fanfic I would understand it being tagged that way or mentioned in the a/n for example. And of course some people prefer thinking of something as incest for enjoyment reasons, while others are opposite.

I have no preference so I can't answer like that. I guess my thoughts are similar to rekishi's.
aliensamba: undertaker - junichi suwabe (b)

[personal profile] aliensamba 2023-01-23 06:57 am (UTC)(link)
This was interesting. I tried to guess which fandoms they were; I came up with Game of Thrones, The Lord of the Rings, Loki, You've Got Mail, Wuthering Heights, etc.

This poll seems like a prime example of the "it's complicated" status message.
aliensamba: undertaker - junichi suwabe (b)

[personal profile] aliensamba 2023-01-24 05:45 am (UTC)(link)
In You've Got Mail, Joe Fox's ex-girlfriend married his dad (or grandad, I'm not sure because I watched this a long time ago). I categorized them under the "in-laws: dating spouse's parent".

Greek myth has a lot of incest because of Zeus.
evandar: (Kaiba Bros.)

[personal profile] evandar 2025-07-10 11:12 am (UTC)(link)
Thank you so much for the link to this. It's really interesting!

My 'it depends' on the alternate version of a family member mostly depends on whether the character from the alternate dimension also exists in their new dimsension, e.g. if the pairing is AU!Thranduil/Legolas then it's incest if there's also an AU!Legolas.

I also think it depends for creator/creation if the creator ever had parental feelings for the creation, or if the creation ever looked up to the creator like a parent. If the creation was created "for the science!!!" or if the creator was under duress then it doesn't feel like incest for me. So, I wouldn't read Tony Stark/Ultron as incest, but I would read Tony Stark/JARVIS as incest.
evandar: (Legolas)

[personal profile] evandar 2025-07-10 12:54 pm (UTC)(link)
Exactly. And if it was an AU!Thranduil who never had a child, then to him, this Legolas is just another elf, while that Legolas would only have very few - if any - memories of Thranduil at all, and any knowledge of a familial relationship would be pretty much academic on both sides.

Human!Jarvis played such a huge role in Tony's upbringing that he was essentially a parent-figure despite the lack of blood relation between them. With that in mind, and with JARVIS being created in his image - that's what makes Tony/JARVIS incest to me.