Hello! This is a post about
fictional incest, please don't open it if it squicks you!
Mostly I'm curious about which "borderline" incest situations count as incest ships to you.
By taking this poll, you consent that it is about fictional situations and that "it is incest" absolutely not implies that it's wrong
writing about it.
Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 16
First Cousins
View AnswersYes
6 (37.5%)
No
6 (37.5%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
4 (25.0%)
Second cousins or more (from the same important, close-knit family)
View AnswersYes
4 (25.0%)
No
10 (62.5%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
2 (12.5%)
Sworn siblings
View AnswersYes
2 (12.5%)
No
11 (68.8%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
3 (18.8%)
Not blood related, their respective parents married when they were tiny
View AnswersYes
8 (50.0%)
No
3 (18.8%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
5 (31.2%)
Not blood related, their respective parents married when they were teens
View AnswersYes
0 (0.0%)
No
10 (66.7%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
5 (33.3%)
Not blood related, their respective parents married when they were adult
View AnswersYes
0 (0.0%)
No
15 (93.8%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
1 (6.2%)
Legally adopted siblings, raised together
View AnswersYes
10 (62.5%)
No
3 (18.8%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
3 (18.8%)
Legally adopted siblings, not raised together (adult adoption or estrangement)
View AnswersYes
0 (0.0%)
No
12 (75.0%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
4 (25.0%)
Parent figure/child figure, no legal adoption
View AnswersYes
7 (43.8%)
No
3 (18.8%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
6 (37.5%)
Raised together with clear acknowledgement one person is the child of the family and the other a ward
View AnswersYes
5 (31.2%)
No
5 (31.2%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
6 (37.5%)
In-laws - Dating sibling's spouse / spouse's sibling
View AnswersYes
0 (0.0%)
No
16 (100.0%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
0 (0.0%)
In-laws - Dating kid's spouse / spouse's parent
View AnswersYes
0 (0.0%)
No
16 (100.0%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
0 (0.0%)
In-laws - Dating parent's spouse / spouse's child
View AnswersYes
1 (6.2%)
No
13 (81.2%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
2 (12.5%)
Selfcest (time travel)
View AnswersYes
3 (18.8%)
No
10 (62.5%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
3 (18.8%)
Selfcest (alternate universe)
View AnswersYes
3 (18.8%)
No
11 (68.8%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
2 (12.5%)
Selfcest (cloning)
View AnswersYes
4 (25.0%)
No
8 (50.0%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
4 (25.0%)
Alternate universe version of a family member
View AnswersYes
5 (31.2%)
No
1 (6.2%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
10 (62.5%)
Clone of a family member
View AnswersYes
6 (37.5%)
No
1 (6.2%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
9 (56.2%)
Very close childhood friends (could be labelled "like siblings")
View AnswersYes
0 (0.0%)
No
15 (93.8%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
1 (6.2%)
Immortal ancestor/mostly human many generations descendant
View AnswersYes
1 (6.2%)
No
13 (81.2%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
2 (12.5%)
Creator/Artificial creation
View AnswersYes
2 (12.5%)
No
9 (56.2%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
5 (31.2%)
Two artificial creations from the same creator
View AnswersYes
1 (6.2%)
No
12 (75.0%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
3 (18.8%)
Anyone/shapeless entity who takes the shape of a family member
View AnswersYes
1 (6.2%)
No
9 (56.2%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
6 (37.5%)
Mentor/Student since childhood
View AnswersYes
1 (6.2%)
No
14 (87.5%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
1 (6.2%)
Poly V where two siblings are dating the same person at the same time
View AnswersYes
1 (6.2%)
No
12 (75.0%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
3 (18.8%)
One blood family and one adopted family of the same person, never met before
View AnswersYes
0 (0.0%)
No
15 (93.8%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
1 (6.2%)
Schrödinger's siblings (one of them might be an illegitimate member of the family, but no one actually knows)
View AnswersYes
2 (12.5%)
No
4 (25.0%)
It depends (you can elaborate in a comment)
10 (62.5%)
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I did a 'depends' on the self-cest variations mostly because it can be done well or done badly, depending on the author, the ages of the characters, and, well, sometimes on sunspots or the phase of the moon! It's definitely not a hard 'no' for me, but I guess I need to be lured into it.
And interesting poll and I hope you get some thoughtful answers!
Thank you for participating in Snowflake!
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Elaborating on the "it depends":
First cousins -- I wouldn't consider it "really" incest if it's from a culture or time where cousin marriage is normal/common (which is not true for sibling incest for me -- that definitely still feels like incest even if it's Targaryens or whatever). But even outside of tht, it depends on how close the cousins are. The couple having children (or having the potential to have children) would make me feel it was more incest, but if it's a couple who don't know each other well and they cannot have biological children together, that would not feel like incest.
Second+ cousins -- mostly not incest, unless they grew up together, more like siblings or first cousins (which can happen in large, close-knit families)
Not blood related, their respective parents married when they were tiny -- incest if they were raised together (which I think is what the question probably meant), not incest if they were raised without much contact, e.g. by the parents who are not married to each other, and within that continuum depends on how much contact they had as children.
Parent figure/child figure, no legal adoption -- that seems like it can cover such a large territory. If the parent figure raised the child figure from a young age, was the only parental figure the child ever knew -- incest, even if no legal adoption. But if the parent figure took over parenting duties of a teenage ward -- I'd personally probably still find it squicky because of power dynamics, but it wouldn't feel like incest.
Raised together with clear acknowledgement one person is the child of the family and the other a ward -- I think for me it depends on what "ward" implies in the specific universe. If it's just a political tool for keeping hostages and/or establishing political relationships like in ASOIAF, and that's the framework in which the ward and the family children grow up, that doesn't feel like incest to me (and unrelated children growing up alongside each other can happen in a lot of circumstances, e.g. commune, creche). But if "ward" is essentially a form of adoption and it's just that a status difference is drawn between the ward and the children of the family, that probably would feel more like incest to me.
Selfecest -- I think is just a different thing altogether than incest, except if we're talking about clones, because clones presumably start out as children, rather than something like parallel universe travel where the two versions of the person are presumably meeting as adults. So, a situation where someone raised their own clone from a baby -- would definitely feel like incest. A situation where someone was brought up alongside their clone as a sibling -- would also feel like incest. A framework in which clones are legally considered to be children or siblings of the original might twoo, but it would probably depend for me on how the two people felt about each other (e.g. in the Vorkosigan Saga, a character immediately thinks of his clone as a brother, and so it would feel like incest to me even though they meet as adults).
Alternate universe version of a family member -- depends on the closeness of the family relationship and how far apart the universes are in terms of the family member's different experiences, but mostly incest.
Creator/Artificial creation -- depends on whether the creator had to raise his artificial creation. If he did, it would feel like parent figure/child figure. But it it's something like Tony Stark/Ultron, that doesn't feel like incest.
Anyone/shapeless entity who takes the shape of a family member -- for me, depends on whether the person in question realizes the other partner is a shape-shifter. If they don't, it's incest from their point of view. If they do, it still feels weird, and would still have incesty vibes for me, but I wouldn't call it outright incest.
Schrödinger's siblings -- I guess for me it would come down to the likelihood of them actually being siblings and then stuff like is the relationship likely to lead to inbreeding. So, like, it would bother me more with full siblings (e.g. older child born to the same couple out of wedlock and given up for adoption) than with half siblings, and I think would bother me more with a pair capable of having biological children vs one that was not.
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I agree if they're human, but in other case, like Zeus/Hera, it doesn't even register as incest to me.
Clearly incest is NOT the main problem in their marriage.
For "ward" I was thinking about "poor orphan charity case"
I was not sure about the right word
For clones, have you watched Orphan Black?
"If they do, it still feels weird, and would still have incesty vibes for me, but I wouldn't call it outright incest." Yeah I had mostly in mind cases where the "I have no shape, I will take a shape your familiar with" situation is very open.
To me with Schrödinger's incest it depends also on what the characters believe re: their parentage.
Thank you for your detailed answers!
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Blood relationship: yes if it's closer than cousins
Generational: If there's a generational difference it feels more incesty to me. For example, uncle/nephew, even if they're not blood related, is incest in my mind.
Raised together: If the people aren't blood relations but were raised together, it feels like incest to me.
Parental relationships: have to be literally parental, as in one character raised the other. So something like creator/artificial creation could be incest depending on whether the creation was brought up by the creator or was somehow created with a fully adult consciousness. But mentor/student isn't usually incest.
This is making me think of Fanny Price and Edmund Bertram in Mansfield Park. It's not incest (to me) because they're cousins, it's incest because they were raised together and behaved like brother and sister until adulthood.
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"If the people aren't blood relations but were raised together, it feels like incest to me.": Oh I forgot to ask this one. If the characters were raised together, but in an orphanage, not a family, is it incest?
And yeah, it really is a matter of opinion.
I'm thinking of Victor and Elizabeth in Frankenstein, and to me it's incest, but only because they were raised like brother and sister. If the parents were a bit more assholes and had insisted "THIS is our real son and THIS is our charity case", it would be less incesty to me ^^
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I was thinking specifically of uncle/nephew (or uncle/niece, aunt/nephew etc.) who aren't blood related. E.g., someone's mother's sister's husband is their uncle, but he's not their blood relative. If they are blood relatives (e.g. mother's brother) then it's definitely incest regardless of age.
raised together, but in an orphanage, not a family, is it incest?
Hmm, I'd say it depends. If they were raised together from early childhood, then yes. If it's later--say, they meet when they're 10 and are raised together after that, in a non-family situation--then probably not. From what I've read, there is to some extent an innate human aversion to incest, and it kicks in most strongly when people have lived together since the infancy of at least one of them. (I suspect--but this is based on nothing but guesswork--that a family dynamic has more of an inhibiting effect than an orphanage one, which is why I think that stepsiblings raised in one household from the age of say, twelve would be incest, but it wouldn't necessarily be if they were raised in the same orphanage from an equivalent age. If the dynamic of a family isn't there, it doesn't read to me as necessarily incestuous.)
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But for me, it depends also on the culture? In some cultures marrying your brother's widow is incest, in others it's encouraged to keep the family links going.
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I tried very hard to cover my bases and I realize that I missed some situations :D
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Mentor/student is just icky.
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Like, I may not consider something incest but if the characters do in a fanfic I would understand it being tagged that way or mentioned in the a/n for example. And of course some people prefer thinking of something as incest for enjoyment reasons, while others are opposite.
I have no preference so I can't answer like that. I guess my thoughts are similar to rekishi's.
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This poll seems like a prime example of the "it's complicated" status message.
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I had a version with examples, but I hadn't examples for all of them, and also, questions on dremwidth are short. Here are some of my drafts.
* First cousins
Ciel/Elizabeth (Kuroshitsuji), Shaolan/Meilin (Card Captor Sakura), Antigone/Creon (Greek mythology)
* Second cousins or more (from the same important, close-knit family)
Arwen/Aragorn (Lord of the Rings), Hatsuharu/Rin (Fruits Basket)
* Sworn siblings
Odin/Loki (Norse mythology), Nie Mingjue/Jin Guangyao/Lan Xichen (The Untamed)
* Not blood related, their respective parents married when they were teens
Yuzu/Mei (Citrus), Miki/Yuu (Marmelade Boy)
* Legally adopted siblings, raised together
Dexter/Deb (Dexter), Thor/Loki (Marvel)
* Parent figure/child figure, no legal adoption
Jinx/Silco (Arcane)
* Raised together with clear acknowledgement one person is the child of the family and the other a >
Wei Wuxian/Jiang Cheng (The Untamed), Viktor/Elizabeth (Frankenstein), Kazuya/Lee (Tekken)
* In-laws - Dating kid's spouse / spouse's parent
Ruth/Naomi (Bible),
* Selfcest (alternate universe)
Loki/Sylvie (Loki tv)
* Selfcest (cloning)
Beth/Alison (Orphan Black)
* Alternate universe version of a family member
Cop Rick/Cop Morty (Rick and Morty)
* Very close childhood friends (could be labelled "like siblings")
Jonathan/Mina (Dracula), Kuroo/Kenma (Haikyuu)
* Immortal ancestor/mostly human many generations descendant
Zeus/Alcmene (Greek myth), Farouk/Berenilde (La passe-miroir)
* Creator/Artificial creation
Frankenstein/his creature (Frankenstein
* Anyone/shapeless entity who takes the shape of a family member
Ciel/Sebastian (Black Butler)
* Mentor/Student since childhood
Obiwan/Anakin (Star Wars),
* Schrödinger's siblings (one of them might be an illegitimate member of the family, but no one act>
Catherine/Heathcliff (Wuthering Heights), Ivan/Smerdyakov (Brothers Karamazov)
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Greek myth has a lot of incest because of Zeus.
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It's not only Zeus! Honestly Hera being his sister is the least of the problems they had (they didn't even grow up together) and all previous generations were incestuous too! His parents were brother and sister! The parents of his parents were mother and child! You can't blame Zeus for all the incest.
He agreed to Hades/Persephone but it wasn't his idea, and I'm not even talking about incest among humans!
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My 'it depends' on the alternate version of a family member mostly depends on whether the character from the alternate dimension also exists in their new dimsension, e.g. if the pairing is AU!Thranduil/Legolas then it's incest if there's also an AU!Legolas.
I also think it depends for creator/creation if the creator ever had parental feelings for the creation, or if the creation ever looked up to the creator like a parent. If the creation was created "for the science!!!" or if the creator was under duress then it doesn't feel like incest for me. So, I wouldn't read Tony Stark/Ultron as incest, but I would read Tony Stark/JARVIS as incest.
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Ah yeah, though I guess every Legolas has a father. But the Legolas could be in a situation "my father died when I was so little that I never actually knew him"
For the Tony Stark version, you're talking about the movies I think? Yeah for Ultron I agree on Tony's side, but also, would Ultron himself see it as incest?
For jARVIS I'm not sure, as it was created as an homage to the family's butler, I think? So if it imitates an unrelated person, it's less incest to me, but it's a very good question anyway. (there are no wrong answers to this poll anyway ^^)
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Human!Jarvis played such a huge role in Tony's upbringing that he was essentially a parent-figure despite the lack of blood relation between them. With that in mind, and with JARVIS being created in his image - that's what makes Tony/JARVIS incest to me.